{"id":269,"date":"2009-06-10T16:05:16","date_gmt":"2009-06-10T22:05:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/maxmarmer.com\/?p=269"},"modified":"2017-10-11T09:29:36","modified_gmt":"2017-10-11T15:29:36","slug":"the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/","title":{"rendered":"The Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2"},"content":{"rendered":"

First I recommend you read the previous post on this subject.<\/a><\/p>\n

Concurrently to that facebook discussion I was having this discussion over Instant Messenger as a result of this tweet:\u00a0Hypothesis: Future of education is the structure of unschooling combined with resources of a Harvard\/Stanford. What do you think?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

i find ur stastus interesting<\/p>\n

do u mean something like an online school?<\/p>\n

11:40am<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

well I think that’s one model, but it’s not sufficient, face to face is still very important for learning<\/p>\n

I’m thinking something more decentralized but in a local area<\/p>\n

11:42am<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

so essentially there are still “schools”<\/p>\n

but every school has resources like harvard<\/p>\n

?<\/p>\n

11:43am<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

hm, I don’t know if that’s possible, one school will always have more resources. I suppose every school could have what harvard has now, if harvard then had even more…11:45am<\/span><\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

but more specifically, what I’m proposing, is that the structure of unschooling combined with resources comparable to that of Harvard is better than what Harvard currently provides. This would create more engaged, and effective people<\/p>\n

11:46am<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

hm<\/p>\n

i like your goal for sure<\/p>\n

11:48am<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

And I think many colleges could provide more value by adopting that model, instead of trying to emulate harvard<\/p>\n

I sense a ‘but’<\/p>\n

11:49am<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

i cant say but yet, cuz im not totally sure what a more local education would be like<\/p>\n

11:49am<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

I”m actually working on this btw, I’m taking a gap year and working on a startup that aims to foster this , by allowing more young people to actually make big ideas happen, instead of it just being momentary enthusiastic and losing interest.<\/p>\n

Entrepreneurship and startups give you the early signal of what it will look like<\/p>\n

21st century demands being entrepreneurial in my opinion, that doesn’t necessarily mean starting a business though.<\/p>\n

11:51am<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

ex: Preben Antonsen, close friend who went to Lick, wants to get todays youth more into classical music, so as part of “Formerly known as classical” he organized a concert. That’s entrepreneurial, it’s making things happen and it’s way more empowering than anything that happens in the classroom.<\/p>\n

11:55am<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

another great idea<\/p>\n

you always appear on my newsfeed<\/p>\n

and sadly<\/p>\n

no one else is really enthusiastic or about the world or engaged<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

at lick that was true<\/p>\n

I’ve begun to surround myself with people who are<\/p>\n

most of my friends are 21+ now<\/p>\n

but it’s small crowd<\/p>\n

and I’m lucky to be in SF<\/p>\n[FYI: Lick is the name of the high school we went to]\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

yeah def<\/p>\n

cuz i go to a school where everyone is focused only on one thing [music]\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

right<\/p>\n

do you think solely focusing on one thing is a bad thing<\/p>\n

I’m mixed<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

oh man<\/p>\n

so many perspectives<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

it’s definitely better than not being engaged in anything, which is what most people do,<\/p>\n

but I’m not sure if being so narrowly focused is better than being interested in a lot of things<\/p>\n

I think doing things in cycles can be effective though<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

one of my friends always preaches balance to me because he was pretty miserable just focusing on grades and such but when he started to socialize more and pickup other interests he became so much happier with himself<\/p>\n

thats one<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

But even if you’re aiming to optimize for music skill, there’s a good chance maximizing number of hours isn’t the best option<\/p>\n

I agree with elements of what Jason said<\/p>\n

productivity is a big interest of mine<\/p>\n

so I think one very important lessons is adopting a paradigm of energy management not the conventional time management<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

absolutely<\/p>\n

at my school, there are people that practice 0-7 hrs a day<\/p>\n

just because you practice 7 hrs doesnt mean you are being productive<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

one thing that I think made Jason more miserable is focusing on grades, because it’s an artificial construction with little tangible value, — I think focusing on music wouldn’t bring any misery though there would be\u00a0 a longing for variety<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

thats the problem with parents forcing their child to learn music<\/p>\n

and attempting a career<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

So energy management theory says how much accomplish is directly proportional to how much energy you put into things not how much time, and that resting and recharging is essential for long term progress<\/p>\n

so you have to recharge energy, in four distinct categories intellectual, spiritual, emotional, and physical<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

after learning all these things do you use it in daily life?<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

yes, not perfectly<\/p>\n

but I try<\/p>\n

and I’ve definitely seen results<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

good<\/p>\n

wont there be a time where you\u2019ll have to stick to a method<\/p>\n

cuz there is always a learning phase<\/p>\n

and if you are into productivity<\/p>\n

you dont want to keep on relearning things<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

right<\/p>\n

I’m not often learning totally different things<\/p>\n

I’m trying to incorporate it into what I already do<\/p>\n

and build slowly<\/p>\n

I\u2019m curious, what gave the impression that you have to jump around all the time<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

i wouldnt say “have” to, but there is a ton of information out there<\/p>\n

so the option is available<\/p>\n

even like a simple task of cooking<\/p>\n

with the internet, there are a million different ways to bake cookies<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

I’m pretty good at getting a sense of what’s worth the time to dive deep into<\/p>\n

So yes information overload is something to worry about<\/p>\n

but Clay Shirky says, “There is no such thing as information overload, only filter failure”<\/p>\n

so it’s a matter of learning how to develop better filters<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

but i agree that a person must have a “sense” of what will work<\/p>\n

right<\/p>\n

did you take psychology<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

not at Lick, but I’ve read a lot of psychology<\/p>\n

why do you ask?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

jw<\/p>\n

what do you think of the god filter<\/p>\n

where a person lives by the bible<\/p>\n

the christian filter<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

ha<\/p>\n

not a fan or a supporter<\/p>\n

I’m an atheist<\/p>\n

I think that filter leads to a lot of poor decision making<\/p>\n

but not always<\/p>\n

it’s not all bad<\/p>\n

but has many flaws<\/p>\n

what do you think?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

ive met some really true christians at my school, and i just think their god limits their life experiences<\/p>\n

espeically when they use their religion not to face their fears and challenges<\/p>\n

there are so many flaws<\/p>\n

but putting myself in their shoes it makes sense<\/p>\n

cuz they were raised that way, and their parents have sheltered them, etc.<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

sure<\/p>\n

I think almost all worldviews are internally consistent<\/p>\n

my friend wrote a good blog post to this effect: http:\/\/andymckenzie.blogspot.com\/2009\/06\/envision-victims-but-no-villians.html<\/span><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

there are no evil people or villians, only misguided people. Everyone thinks they are right.<\/p>\n

Self-deception is very easy.<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

yeah, but sometimes i cannot deny the urge to get pissed off at someone if they do something stupid<\/p>\n

while i can have emphaty for someenon, its easy to show emotion<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

yea, I know what you mean, I was in an atheist rage for a little while after reading a few of the seminal books, like sam harris letter to a Christian Nation, where I wanted to make all the believers see the light<\/p>\n

but I’ve realized it’s nearly impossible to change a person who doesn’t want to change — you could try if they are already a close friend AND you have an opening where they express some doubt, but it\u2019s better to just appreciate their virtues and focus on what you do have in common. As long as they aren\u2019t hurting anyone it\u2019s not THAT bad. Though I do agree with Sam Harris that accepting irrationality from religious moderates gives permission for the extremists to exist.<\/p>\n

oh, another quote I really like<\/p>\n

you can’t convince anyone of anything, you can only give them the information they need to convince themselves<\/p>\n

but non-believers are the fastest growing religion I hear<\/p>\n

so I think eventually social pressures will force most of them to become more rational<\/p>\n

so how focused are you on music?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

its def one of my main focuses<\/p>\n

the time dedicated to it<\/p>\n

etc.<\/p>\n

or energy<\/p>\n

heh<\/p>\n

but it doesnt stop me from exploring other interests<\/p>\n

the people who are focused only on music, literally dont do anything else besides eat and poop<\/p>\n

they are weird<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

do they even end up being the best musicians?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

and the sad thing is, no famous professional musician had a background like that<\/p>\n

12:56 PM<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hmm, do they end up getting a short burst in skill in the short term?<\/p>\n

is there at least the appearance of an advantage?<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

theres another balance a person has to find<\/p>\n

like you said<\/p>\n

about how efficient the hours put in are<\/p>\n

so back to your hypothesis about schooling<\/p>\n

one of the things that was great about lick was they emphasized analyzing<\/p>\n

which as great<\/p>\n

but nothing really came out of it<\/p>\n

which is why i like ur idea<\/p>\n

like people can sit around debating…<\/p>\n

but to fully engage they should probably act on their words<\/p>\n

but it takes a certain kind of individual to do that cuz not every kid wants to be proactive<\/p>\n

some need to socialize more<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

yea I agree analyzing was better than nothing<\/p>\n

but without the next step it feels hollow and empty<\/p>\n

and made me not want to do it anymore, even more so I suspect with other kids<\/p>\n

so yes, some kids are innately more proactive<\/p>\n

but then that’s the central skill Lick should foster<\/p>\n

if they want to achieve what they claim is the central mission of the school<\/p>\n

they should be training proactivity not analytical ability<\/p>\n

even papers aren’t a bad thing all the time<\/p>\n

learning to write is very important<\/p>\n

but first of all I don’t even think they taught us how to write, just to write<\/em>.<\/p>\n

The feedback mechanism, which is the essence of good learning, was terrible— wait a few weeks and get some comments<\/p>\n

papers should be shared with the world…possibly through blogs and the ideas should be built upon in class, not just read by one teacher and stuck in the trash<\/p>\n

essays are where people, allegedly, spent the most time crafting solid ideas, it is highly processed content, these ideas should be built upon, and used as the basis of a plan that is then acted upon<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

I see<\/p>\n

one of lick’s views was that it shows you as much variety as possible<\/p>\n

then the student chooses<\/p>\n

acting upon a plan would take alot of time<\/p>\n

but then again people waste so much time…<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

the variety model doesn’t work because the school isn’t flexible enough<\/p>\n

with scheduling, with changing classes, with deciding a few weeks into it that you want to do something else<\/p>\n

most of the curriculum sounded nice on paper, in my opinion<\/p>\n

but was very unsatisfying<\/p>\n

I agree with the variety, experimentation model<\/p>\n

and I have some ideas about how that could be done better<\/p>\n

1:19 PM<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

true<\/p>\n

but the school has to create a curriculum for all students proactive or not<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

Lick does<\/p>\n

But learning institutions (of the future) do not necessarily<\/p>\n

unschooling does not have curriculum<\/p>\n

it can have a little but it is very loose and informal<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

it seems more of a personal education<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

that’s would education should be<\/p>\n

so instead of a personal education we should be education ourselves for the state?<\/p>\n

*raised fist*<\/p>\n

*communist salute*<\/p>\n

1:27 PM<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

for the state, or more for self joy<\/p>\n

what feels better, watching tony break up with amber on mtv or freakin learning !’<\/p>\n

ha<\/p>\n

Max<\/strong><\/p>\n

learning makes you more lastingly happy<\/p>\n

tv is junk food<\/p>\n

and studies show people actually are on average mildly depressed while watching tv<\/p>\n

Tv has very similar effects to drugs<\/p>\n

it’s fine to do sometimes<\/p>\n

and it’s addicting but it’s not very satisfying, over time it will make you depressed and live an uninteresting life<\/p>\n

they’ve found one of the best barometers about whether a child will be successful is whether they can delay gratification<\/p>\n

Cory<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n

cool study<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.ted.com\/talks\/joachim_de_posada_says_don_t_eat_the_marshmallow_yet.html<\/a><\/p>\n

1:36 PM<\/p>\n

so many temptations in this world!<\/p>\n

this is hilarious<\/p>\n

the people who eat the marshmallows will live the hedonistic lifestyle<\/p>\n

—<\/p>\n

(more to come)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

First I recommend you read the previous post on this subject. Concurrently to that facebook discussion I was having this discussion over Instant Messenger as a result of this tweet:\u00a0Hypothesis: Future of education is the structure of unschooling combined with resources of a Harvard\/Stanford. What do you think? Cory i find ur stastus interesting do Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[12,9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-269","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-education","category-learning","cat-12-id","cat-9-id"],"yoast_head":"\nThe Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2 - Max Marmer<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2 - Max Marmer\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"First I recommend you read the previous post on this subject. 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Concurrently to that facebook discussion I was having this discussion over Instant Messenger as a result of this tweet:\u00a0Hypothesis: Future of education is the structure of unschooling combined with resources of a Harvard\/Stanford. What do you think? Cory i find ur stastus interesting do Continue Reading","og_url":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/","og_site_name":"Max Marmer","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/maxmarmer","article_published_time":"2009-06-10T22:05:16+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-10-11T15:29:36+00:00","author":"Max Marmer","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@maxmarmer","twitter_site":"@maxmarmer","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Max Marmer","Est. reading time":"10 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/"},"author":{"name":"Max Marmer","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/47a3e2be930e26e7b4b550d29e5d7fb3"},"headline":"The Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2","datePublished":"2009-06-10T22:05:16+00:00","dateModified":"2017-10-11T15:29:36+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/"},"wordCount":2070,"commentCount":4,"articleSection":["Education","Learning"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/","url":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/","name":"The Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2 - Max Marmer","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-06-10T22:05:16+00:00","dateModified":"2017-10-11T15:29:36+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/47a3e2be930e26e7b4b550d29e5d7fb3"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/the-coming-educational-landscape-pt2\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"The Coming Educational Landscape Pt. 2"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/","name":"Max Marmer","description":"In Quest of Super Humanity: Via Consciousness, Biohacking & Entrepreneurship","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/47a3e2be930e26e7b4b550d29e5d7fb3","name":"Max Marmer","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/913395f01c68d915078d67ba9436a09e87ffbf4cd14fe6a4f273b6c1a1032fbc?s=96&d=blank&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/913395f01c68d915078d67ba9436a09e87ffbf4cd14fe6a4f273b6c1a1032fbc?s=96&d=blank&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/913395f01c68d915078d67ba9436a09e87ffbf4cd14fe6a4f273b6c1a1032fbc?s=96&d=blank&r=g","caption":"Max Marmer"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/maxmarmer.com"],"url":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/author\/maxmarmer\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/269","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=269"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/269\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2586,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/269\/revisions\/2586"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=269"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=269"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.maxmarmer.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=269"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}